[MURG] Cortex activity

[Thomas Weber]

Hi Murg, Hi Joe,

Thomas:
> >We either end up with two identical minds, or the
> >original will have to be ?killed?.
>
Joe: 
> Yep, one instance of the person will be destroyed
> but the person will 
> survive just fine.  This seems strange to most of us
> today, because 
> today (and in all of human history) there is only
> one instance of 
> each person.  But philosophically, there is no
> problem with it, and 
> pragmatically, people will get used to it pretty
> quickly.  It's not a 
> problem.
> 
Thomas:
I follow it. In such a case multiple instances of one
person can be created. I have read very interesting
elaborations (yours?)suggesting they would be
identical minds - same person(s) to start with, but
would become different individuals as they go on
building their own independent new experiences on top
of the original mind. 
 
> >Thomas: As far as I have learned the cortex is made
> of
> >six layers. This suggests to me that the vision
> input
> >is displayed on the top one and what we recall -
> >imagine is displayed on the deeper layers - hence
> the
> >weaker activity.
> Joe:
> No, that's not how it works.  If I were to hazard a
> hypothesis, it'd 
> be this: the activity is weaker when you imagine as
> compared to when 
> you actually see, because the inputs are coming from
> other parts of 
> the brain rather than (ultimately) from the eyes. 
> These inputs are 
> both less coherent and less strong than those coming
> up from the 
> thalamus.  The thalamocortical inputs overwhelm the
> internal inputs, 
> so to speak.  The exception is when you're dreaming;
> in this state 
> the thalamus doesn't relay information from the
> senses, but instead 
> reflects signals coming down from the cortex right
> back up.  In that 
> case, the internally-generated activity is very
> similar to 
> externally-driven activity in the awake state.
> 
Thomas:
This makes sense. It still supports my idea that the
cortex output could be read and coherently
interpreted.

Joe:
> >  > computer now.  But this doesn't have much to do
> with
> >>  uplooading.
> >Thomas:
> >Yes it does. Your expressed opinions and your
> >knowledge is definitely a part of your mind. As you
> >have typed them here you have uploaded a tiny bit
> of
> >your mind. OK I agree not enough to brag about, but
> >nevertheless.....
> Joe:
> One could make a simulacrum based on information
> inferred about a 
> person externally.  But I don't believe that such
> information could 
> ever even begin to scratch the surface of what
> defines a person. 
> Therefore, the simulacrum would not have the same
> identity as the 
> original, and that person would not survive via the
> simulacrum's 
> existence.
> Thomas: That's why I said it is not enough to brag
about. I just thought of this example a the first
small step in the direction. I agree there is a way
more to it.
> >  > Thomas: Coming back to our disc. The contained
> music
> >can be re-recorded from the dics to eg. a tape.
> >I that case we don't need to bother about the
> >ultrastructure of the disc as long as the quality
> of
> >the music is there.
> Joe:
> That works only because it's in the nature of a CD
> player to read out 
> the complete contents of the storage media (the
> disc).  That's 
> exactly what it is built to do -- so by playing your
> CD for an hour, 
> you've captured everything relevant there is to know
> about the 
> contents of the disc.
>Thomas: I can see the imperfection of the analogy.
The information content of the disc is constant and
does not change by playing it or recording to another
disc or tape. If we however ask a person to speak out
his or her entire mind (it would be long) that act
itself would affect the mind. The new memory of
telling the story would be added. Also if we think of
the mind - brain as a recording - playing system - new
recordings are constantly added and also as we keep on
forgetting the old issues - old recordings are
deleted.

> 
Thomas:
> >Mind uploading is a very pioneer undertaking into a
> >very virgin teritory. I think it is just to early
> to
> >be certain about what will work and what will not.
> Joe:
> It's too early to be certain about the details, but
> not about the 
> general approach.
> Thomas: I emphasise - I am not trying to argue with
you especially knowing that your research is about the
brain ultrastructure approach. I don't expect from you
to accept my visions either. Considering that MURG is
a group we should not be too quick dismissing various
approaches. Therefore in my last email I suggested
"camps" exploring various approaches.
Joe:
> To reach back a few years for an analogy: the topic
> of this group is, 
> how we can build an airplane.  We know it'll need
> wings and some 
> means of propulsion, but we need to hammer out the
> details and 
> develop a theory of aerodynamics and so on.  But
> you're coming along 
> and saying, that's a fine idea, but I want to build
> my airplane by 
> giving it a watertight hull and some sails and
> having it move along 
> the surface of the ocean instead of through the air.
>Thomas: Incidentaly my background is in aviation and
I have been working on an innovative aircraft design
for seven years. Tired of trying to succeed alone I am
starting to look for a team to help.
Joe:
> And I'm saying, if that's what you prefer then go
> for it, but it's 
> not an airplane.
> Thomas: Thank you for such a stimulating discussion.
I became so absorbed that other things get neglected.
This is addictive. I will take the back seat for a day
or so and do some more thinking.

Kind Regards,
Thomas Weber
> -- 
>
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> |    Joseph J. Strout         Check out the Mac Web
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> |    joe at strout.net          
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