[MURG] Question about AI and Mind Upload

Thu Feb 5 12:55:16 EST 2004

Each one teaches us about the other.  Each one offer insight into how the
other might work and how it might be accomplished.

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004, Alex Turse wrote:

>
> Who can explain me how AI can help MU? The goals are completely different, the methods are not similar in general case. It seems it could be wasting time with AI...
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Neuropeptide Function? (Yan King Yin)
> 2. Re: Neuropeptide Function? (Eugen Leitl)
> 3. Re: Neuropeptide Function? (Yan King Yin)
> 4. Re: Neuropeptide Function? (Eugen Leitl)
> 5. Re: Neuropeptide Function? (Yan King Yin)
>
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 3.1 message/rfc822
> To: murg at minduploading.org
> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:21:57 -0500
> From: "Yan King Yin"
> Subject: Re: [MURG] Neuropeptide Function?
>
> From: Eugen Leitl
>
> >AIs don't have that handicap, you can breed them from scratch so they'll
> >breed the right encoding to fit the hardware. We're encrusted with legacy in
> >comparison. Not good.
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >We have a planetful of networked hardware which is swiss cheese security-wise
> >(especially, if you automate remote exploit generation). TBit/s backplane
> >switches are a commodity, 10 GBit Ethernet on the local LAN is a couple of
> >years away. Extrapolate three decades into the future.
> >
> >Do you see uploads by then? I don't.
>
> Low-level, "utility" AIs will gradually diffuse and integrate into
> our economy pretty soon. In fact it already started (with robotics
> in manufacturing etc). Before someone creates a seed (autonomous) AI,
> we'll already have a lot of utility AIs that are not sentient and
> will simple do what it's told, doing everything imaginable and
> including security solutions. I find the whole idea about sentient
> AIs rather redundant and similar to reproductive cloning, some kind
> of curiosity.
>
> YKY
>
>
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>
> > ATTACHMENT part 3.2 message/rfc822
> Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2004 19:16:09 +0100
> From: Eugen Leitl
> To: murg at minduploading.org
> Subject: Re: [MURG] Neuropeptide Function?
>
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 12:21:57PM -0500, Yan King Yin wrote:
>
> > Low-level, "utility" AIs will gradually diffuse and integrate into
> > our economy pretty soon. In fact it already started (with robotics
>
> I'm not worried about AIs people design and implement.
> I'm worried about AI designing AI. Current-generation worms can ramp up in
> minutes; you can show that a few-s worm is feasible in principle. You can
> cover a lot of search space with a planet full of hardware three decades
> downstream.
>
> > in manufacturing etc). Before someone creates a seed (autonomous) AI,
> > we'll already have a lot of utility AIs that are not sentient and
> > will simple do what it's told, doing everything imaginable and
> > including security solutions. I find the whole idea about sentient
>
> I don't see how a continuum system can do anything in a
> punctuated-equilibrium context. Dumb systems can't contain smart systems, at
> least not for long. Slowing down buys you nothing, if you can't shut
> down/partition the network.
>
> > AIs rather redundant and similar to reproductive cloning, some kind
> > of curiosity.
>
> That's curious. I see uploading as very precarious hothouse flower in
> comparison to AI. Monkey-bauplan is afraid of augmented monkeys which are
> afraid of uploads which are afraid of AI.
>
> In a sense there's not much we can do, if the symmetries of the situation are
> against us we're just a yet another layer in the fossil record.
>
> Not that it would be an end to everything, but it would be a bit sad.
>
> -- Eugen* Leitl leitl
> ______________________________________________________________
> ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org
> 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
> http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net
>
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 3.2.2 application/pgp-signature
>
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 3.3 message/rfc822
> To: murg at minduploading.org
> Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 21:32:18 -0500
> From: "Yan King Yin"
> Subject: Re: [MURG] Neuropeptide Function?
>
> Hi Eugen & Sim
>
> I'm more interested in technical aspects of uploading
> rather than worries of AIs taking over. The bottomline
> is that *we* humans create things to make ourselves
> happier. AIs that are against human nature have no
> market and thus will not emerge. You guys can discuss
> it more, I'm off this thread..
>
> Cheers
> YKY
>
>
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>
> > ATTACHMENT part 3.4 message/rfc822
> Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:08:20 +0100
> From: Eugen Leitl
> To: murg at minduploading.org
> Subject: Re: [MURG] Neuropeptide Function?
>
> On Wed, Feb 04, 2004 at 09:32:18PM -0500, Yan King Yin wrote:
>
> > I'm more interested in technical aspects of uploading
> > rather than worries of AIs taking over. The bottomline
>
> Good for you! I'm interested in both, because AI and uploads are closely
> related and competitors. Whichever comes first will inherit this place, and
> everything else, of course.
>
> > is that *we* humans create things to make ourselves
> > happier. AIs that are against human nature have no
>
> "we create things to make ourselves happier" does not agree with reality very
> well. Do wars make you happy? Domestic violence? WMD? Daily malware in your
> inbox? Sure, the milk of human kindness is everyone's cuppa.
>
> > market and thus will not emerge. You guys can discuss
>
> Right now, I'm aware of several projects which are bound to result in an
> uncaring superintelligence, if successful. What's the market in uploads,
> again?
>
> > it more, I'm off this thread..
>
> It is offtopic for this list, but don't be surprised if it happens.
>
> -- Eugen* Leitl leitl
> ______________________________________________________________
> ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144 http://www.leitl.org
> 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A 7779 75B0 2443 8B29 F6BE
> http://moleculardevices.org http://nanomachines.net
>
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 3.4.2 application/pgp-signature
>
>
> > ATTACHMENT part 3.5 message/rfc822
> To: murg at minduploading.org
> Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 07:46:24 -0500
> From: "Yan King Yin"
> Subject: Re: [MURG] Neuropeptide Function?
>
> From: Eugen Leitl
>
> >> I'm more interested in technical aspects of uploading
> >> rather than worries of AIs taking over. The bottomline
> >
> >Good for you! I'm interested in both, because AI and uploads are closely
> >related and competitors. Whichever comes first will inherit this place, and
> >everything else, of course.
>
> That's a good point. I'm switching to AI, but will also work on
> uploading on the side. Way to go! =)
>
> YKY
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________
Keith Wiley                                kwiley at cs.unm.edu
http://www.unm.edu/~keithw                 http://www.mp3.com/KeithWiley

"Yet mark his perfect self-contentment, and hence learn his lesson,
that to be self-contented is to be vile and ignorant, and that to
aspire is better than to be blindly and impotently happy."
                                           --  Edwin A. Abbott, Flatland
________________________________________________________________________