[MURG] Re: various replies

[Ed Minchau]

 --- James Swayze <swayzej at comcast.net> wrote: 

> >From: Sim Bamford <sim at plaything.co.uk>
> >To: murg at minduploading.org
> >Subject: [MURG] Re: X-Prize
> >Reply-To: murg at minduploading.org

> >4) In all experimental procedures of candidate
> organisations, the 
> >simulated individual to be treated ethically and
> afforded, to the 
> >greatest degree possible, human rights. All
> candidate 
> >organisations to place themselves under the
> authority of a group 
> >consisting of all candidate organisations regarding
> ethical 
> >procedures, in addition to any authorities which
> may also be 
> >deemed applicable.
> >  
> >
> Ahem, human rights, are we sure about this? I mean I
> agree but are we 
> exploring the complete implication of this? Here is
> what I wrote about 
> this subject to another forum but relates back to
> this one for a few 
> days ago discussion.
<snikt>

> Back in our universe do proposed mind backups have
> rights?

"Mind backups" doesn't quite cover the concept.

> 
> If they do then don't they deserve to be conscious?
> 
> Of course that defeats the purpose because I think
> you'll agree they 
> would immediately diverge and  become different
> people.

Consciousness defeats the purpose?  Whose purpose? 
What purpose?

> 
> Now let's suppose that they don't have full human
> rights and we treat 
> them as intellectual property.
> 
> A few questions further come to mind.
> 
> Do patent rights then apply with all the baggage
> allegedly heaped upon 
> them in some circles?

Only if an upload is a slave.

> 
> If they have no rights then couldn't one duplicate
> ones own mind then 
> license that software to work for you thereby
> doubling, trebling, 
> quadrupling, etc., etc., one's intellectual
> productive ability?
> 

Would ten Einsteins have come up with ten different
theories, or would they each independently find that
E=mc^2?

> Now consider if this is possible, what happens if
> your patent runs out 
> and big business can duplicate your mind workers
> (other duplicates) ad 
> infinitum and put you and a lot of others out of
> work?

Duplication ad infinitum is not possible, nor would an
attempt to approach such be cost-effective.

> 
> This subject came up on MURG and I got accused of
> having luddite notions 
> when I suggested caution needed to be taken not to
> allow the job loss 
> worker replacement scenario to run amok. The
> individual objecting 
> insisted that duplicating such minds and working
> them would be against 
> their human rights.
> 

I just checked my last email; I attacked the argument,
not the person making it.

> My accuser, kudos Ed, apparently hadn't yet seen the
> obvious irony of 
> creating them in the first place for the express
> purpose of being one's 
> property to only lay around unconscious waiting for
> one's need to 
> arrive, might be a form of slavery or abuse or
> violation of their human 
> rights, supposing laws are created to afford them
> human rights. I think 
> when we put flesh on them it changes the dynamic.

I was not aware of the irony, because I was not aware
that the plan was to treat uploaded minds as slaves in
the first place.

Should uploading be successful, attempts to enslave an
upload may occur.  Such attempts would be futile.  It
is impossible to enslave a man's mind without his
consent.  And remember, an uploaded mind is
functionally and physically equivalent to a
human-level artificial intelligence, and hardware gets
faster every year.

Ed

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