[MURG] Re: various replies

[Thomas Weber]

 --- James Swayze <swayzej at comcast.net> wrote: 
> >
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 21:20:18 -0400 (EDT)
> >From: Thomas Weber <aad1trailmaker at yahoo.ca>
> >Subject: Re: [MURG] mind uploading x prize?
> >To: murg at minduploading.org
> >Reply-To: murg at minduploading.org
> >
> > 
> >
> <snippage>
> 
> >Thomas Weber:
> >I am going to volunteer my life.
> >I am 43 and have been around MURG since 2000.
> >In the past few years I have had a health problem
> >which is getting worse despite a surgery that I had
> >last spring. Considering the rate of deterioration
> I
> >suspect I may have one to two years left. Just long
> >enough to arrange and conduct some experiments.
> >I am writing this not to ask for anyone's
> compassion,
> >
> Well you have mine regardless. Write me.
> 
> <snippage>
> 
> >In my past postings I had expressed an idea of
> >selective mind uploading which essentially means
> that
> >I believe in letting go of the most of our minds,
> but
> >protecting and uploading those parts which we
> consider
> >worth continuation. For instance if we were
> uploading
> >Mozart it would be his music that we would be
> after.
> >Tonigt I take off for a long hectic road trip and
> will
> >not have access to the internet till Sunday. I will
> do
> >some serious thinking on the way and when back I
> will
> >respond to any questions which may arise.
> >Kind Regards,
> >Thomas Weber
> >  
> >
> Respectfully Thomas I disagree with any attempts to
> leave behind any 
> large portions of whatever constitutes an
> individual's mind. You don't 
> get Mozart's music with only his musical knowledge
> or even talent. You 
> instead get a music textbook. To get him with his
> ability to make *his* 
> music you need all his personality, the highs and
> the lows, and I think 
> you know what I mean.
> 
> However, desirous one is to leave behind certain
> widely varying aspects 
> of their personality for the experiment to be judged
> a success it will 
> require that the individual be as closely the same
> as the original as 
> possible. The individual may do self actualizing
> subroutine rewrites as 
> they see fit after their identity is established to
> have survived the 
> process. Otherwise all we have *IS* only a
> *SIMULATION* and not an 
> *EMULATION* or rather *DUPLICATION*.
> 
> Any old sim could be achieved by modeling behavior
> and not necessarily 
> reproducing a true copy of every nuance and fine
> neural pattern.
> 
> On a personal note, how are you holding up? It's
> been a while since we 
> talked. I am saddened that you are having such
> difficulties. Is there 
> nothing that can be done? I didn't think the surgery
> and cause for it 
> was of the type to be so life threatening though
> possible quality of 
> life lessening. Quality of life is more subjective
> and more dependent 
> upon one's attitude and mental state.
> 
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Wed, 20 Oct 2004 09:05:04 +0100
> >From: Sim Bamford <sim at plaything.co.uk>
> >To: murg at minduploading.org
> >Subject: [MURG] Re: X-Prize
> >Reply-To: murg at minduploading.org
> >
> >  
> >
> <snippage>
> 
> >Brief Description of Suggested Challenge (No more
> than 600 words 
> >please)
> >
> >A volunteer is to be scanned or otherwise recorded
> from. The data 
> >gained is to be used to create an accurate computer
> simulation of 
> >the individual, which can run in real time.
> >
> >
> >Suggested Potential Rules
> >
> >1) The scanning or recording technique must be
> safe, and must not 
> >affect the individual at a behavioural or cognitive
> level. This 
> >is to be demonstrated in animal trials.
> >
> Safe? Are talking soft upload here or a non
> destructive scan? IOW, I 
> think again the language is imprecise for describing
> the process. A 
> destructive slice and scan would be anything but
> safe for the uploader 
> and who knows until dome for the uploadee.
> 
> >2) A panel of judges will get to know the
> individual prior to 
> >scanning. They will then be able to cross examine
> the individual 
> >and the simulation by video link. They will not be
> able to guess 
> >which is the simulation.
> >
> Simeon, pardon my continued impertinence but with
> all deference and 
> respect to your preference for the  simulation over
> other 
> characterizations of what we call an upload I think
> it is best to use 
> language that is more widely agreed upon. Perhaps I
> am wrong and haven't 
> a clue but I just have the feeling that *emulation*
> is more widely 
> understood in the various fields to represent an
> actual duplicative 
> upload of a human mind/brain than the word
> *simulation* denotes or 
> better yet implies.
> 
> >3) The environment in which the simulated
> individual is placed 
> >may be modelled by any means. However it must be
> demonstrated 
> >that it is data from the scanning or recording
> procedure alone 
> >which is used to create the simulation of the
> individual.
> >
> Why model any environment? Simulate or devise direct
> input sensory 
> information and let *the* environment be the world
> the upload 
> experiences. The same one we all do but in this case
> for the upload as 
> close to robotic body sensing as we can for what we
> expect to be 
> possible one day for remote sensing by robotic
> bodied uploads.
> 
> >4) In all experimental procedures of candidate
> organisations, the 
> >simulated individual to be treated ethically and
> afforded, to the 
> >greatest degree possible, human rights. All
> candidate 
> >organisations to place themselves under the
> authority of a group 
> >consisting of all candidate organisations regarding
> ethical 
> >procedures, in addition to any authorities which
> may also be 
> >deemed applicable.
> >  
> >
> Ahem, human rights, are we sure about this? I mean I
> agree but are we 
> exploring the complete implication of this? Here is
> what I wrote about 
> this subject to another forum but relates back to
> this one for a few 
> days ago discussion.
> 
> **
> 
=== message truncated === 

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